Scam? I am not classifying STE a scam, but here's a review and my personal experience, which may help you in determining if Shop to Earn is a company you want to be involved with.
Legal Threats:
Unfortunately, my original post from several weeks ago, which had a balanced, yet critical review of the business process, had to be taken down due to the threatening emails sent to me by the legal counsel of Shop To Earn (posted here). Until I investigate my rights/risks further, I have removed the post as of July 14, 2008 to comply with the uncompromising, bullying (in my opinion) behavior of this Shop to Earn and its attorney. Readers had benefited from the important information displayed, but I really don't have the time or energy for a prolonged legal battle to defend my free speech. Fortunately, I have an LLC firewall between this attorney and my personal assets, but I really don't want to spend the time, nor would I like to lose the blog, over this issue unless I have further assurances from my legal inputs, so for now, here's the abridged version that, for any reasonable individual, has nothing that could invite legal action for OPINIONS:
Shop to Earn (shoptoearn.net) is the latest craze sweeping the multi-level marketing (MLM) world and at one point, I'd actually considered signing on. Objectively, I'd posted a critical report on the UFirst Money Merge Account, a mortgage accelerator, which employs MLM agents to market its product. So, by no means am I an MLM advocate, but I had an open mind. I had a friend who introduced me to the concept of Shop To Earn and it didn't seem to be that bad early on. ACN was another one that I goof on now and then because the methods used to even make the effort feasible for associates didn't seem right to me. Additionally, the end market product they were selling had flaws as I saw them. For instance, I calculated the energy costs for the ACN energy offering versus my own and it would have been MORE expensive to join than just staying out of the program.
I've listed the following Cons which clearly reflect my opinion. (I have removed Pros from initial post given the draconian [in my opinion] behavior of Shop To Earn's legal counsel):
Cons:
- As is usual for MLMs, there's an up front buy-in fee. In this case, $448 to get the full benefits of a website and business owner.
- Personally (my opinion), I don't like the Earth products. I didn't really see much use for them and for whatever reason, MLMs are often geared around "green" or earthy products.
- I've usually associated people involved in MLMs as being a bit different; especially the overly enthusiastic ones. I didn't want to be "That Guy".
- It's possible that the growth doesn't pan out to return the anticipated value or the work required to maintain a decent income from the system outweighs the benefit.
- Based on the presentation I had seen, there are still many unanswered questions. In my opinion, there was a lack of transparency and detail available to the public, which concerned me.
GET PAID TO SHOP EITHER WAY!
Here's some food for thought though: One of the primary tenants of the system is to utilize online shopping to maximize discounts. Whether or not you join, you should optimize your cash back from the credit cards you're utilizing. This link will bring you to all the best cash back options out there: CreditCards.com- Points Rewards Category
UPDATE - THE CONVERSATION HAS MOVED TO DARWIN'S FINANCE FOR the 2009 UPDATE on STE. Please use that post for the latest on STE and Comments. They're closed here and accepted there; much easier to manage on the other blog.
96 COMMENTS HERE
This is a classic Pyramid Scheme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
Yes, you can make large amounts of money in it. It all depends on what level of the pyramid you are getting in. If you can be sure you are getting in near the very top you may actually make money.
Thanks for that link; I checked it out and in the article, there's actually an "MLM" piece on Wiki that seems to fit more with the program. While I don't recall if they use the term MLM (there's a negative connotation to it), I know it is from the structure. Here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I checked out MLM and this still resembles a Pyramid scheme more than MLM. The reason I am saying this is because the product you get for your money has little value on it's own, certainly not near 400 dollars, and being forced to purchase 100 dollars worth of products every month from 1 company has negative value since you are forced to shop at a specific retailer. The primarily cash generator *IS* ability of people below you to continuously find more people to sign up for this. The actual product you purchase (10% discount at retailers) can't be sold on it's own for 400 dollars (I get coupons in the mail for free all the time), and the ability to shop at that website for products almost nobody needs in large amounts is a negative not a positive. This is a pyramid scheme.
I think there's something else you should consider. You acknowledge in your post that these kinds of companies or schemes, depending on your point of view, "have the top tier of members making the majority of the money, whereas the followon thousands of people at the bottom of the pyramid front most of the work, money, sweat and reap little income." It seems to me that there is a dissonance bewteen that kind of a proposition and the beneficial information and advice you provide for everyday folks in your blog.
I anticipated some contraversy when I posted on it and asked for advice, so it's welcome. I always publish comments unless they're total spam, so I say thanks for your opinions and I'm sticking with "honesty is the best policy" in sharing this information. Still undecided but tonight's my deadline; I've dragged my friend around on this for a full week now. Gotta respect his time and efforts and let him move on if I get cold feet.
It's official, I'm out. After much soul searching and some analysis of what's important to me, I've opted not to join. I want to thank readers of Everyday Finance for providing your opinions, critical or not, as these sentiments were a part of my decision. There are additional factors that became evident over the past day I can highlight in a future post that impacted my decision as well. Thanks again, and hopefully, you don't judge too harshly on the consideration; I ended up doing the right thing in the end I believe. More to come!
In the companies compenstation plan it states that WHEN YOUR LEGS are out of balance more than 1/3 than thay will make a deduction. This means that if you have 10,000 points on on side and 1600 on the other when you score (4800 points) they take 3200 from you 10,000 and the remaining 1600 is deducted from your weaker side, which would leave you with 0 on the one side. Its is not realistic to assume that you will be able control 100's to thousands of people beneath you, putting you in this situation, and cause you to constantly pull people in an attempt to maintain balance. Though this concept seems great you will not make the monies these companies predict. Oh yea, and at any point the company feels that the viability of the company is at stake they will zero out both sides. IS THIS A PYRAMID SCAM?
Wel all of this info is really helpful. I've been on the fence about joining ste for a few days now. Again, as I've heard before, I
really respect the person who approached me with this idea. Is it that you have to spend $100. a month just from shop to earth-or can it be from any of the retailers? I've thrown away $450. foolishly, why not give it a try?
Experts do predict that online shopping will increase by 17% in 2008...that's makes me more inclined to "just do it"
Unfortunately, the $100 MUST be spent on the Earth products an the major retailers in the "earn" section are really just a fringe benefit available to members apparently. Early on, I thought that given the exposure from the blog and the benefit I could provide to readers in sharing decent discounts at online retailers, I'd be generating tons of points through the likes or Walmart and Best Buy, but the reality is that those discounts are only available to members. What I've also discovered through some research is that most retailers actually have discounts via discount cards, coupon codes on the internet, etc., so the true benefit is a bit diminished there as well. I'll be doing another post next week with some more details; I'm just a bit behind with the site upgrade and Father's day weekend of course!
http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2008/06/16/carnival-of-personal-finance-157-third-anniversary-edition/
Yes, The $100 per month must come from the Shoptoearth site (that is not yet a requirement- That will most likely be implemented around September BUT only after they have about 1000 products to the site). They want to be the "Whole Foods" of the internet! I met the founders of STE this weekend in Jupiter and their vision is truly greater than just making people money! They want to encourage people to give back, not only by using Eco-friendly products but by getting Americans to start thinking about others! How can you do that if you can't take care of yourself especially in this economy! Well, If they can get people to the point where in a year or two they don't have to worry about $$ and are living cleaner healthier lives, IMAGINE all of the causes that we could contribute our time and wealth too! This has been a goal of mine for years but I never quite got to the place where i was able to do this! I am successful and well respected in my business however the cost of living keeps going up and I have to spend more time working to make the money that pays my bills ( I have no debt either!). Time or money. Either way I can't contribute as long as I am a slave to "getting by". Isn;t that the way most Americans live their lives! I have so much faith in this company that I am making it a goal to leave my job in 1 year! I am working with my friends and family to help them get their business growing so they can do the same and the best of it all is we are doing it together! How Fun and motivating! So whatever you think about this business and the flaws that it may have, I have NEVER seen an opportunity like this! The bottom line is you get what you put into it! Your business, your body, your family, your life! This could be the beginning of a new way of life for so many people! What does it hurt to give it a shot? Especially when you could REALLY make a difference in the near future! This is not a race to make as much money as you can only a marathon. A marathon with a finish line much greater than a feeling of accomplishment! Yes, there will be ups and downs along the way! There is no EASY way to make money but this is probably the simplest, softest approach to making $$$ and making a difference that I have ever seen and am proud to be part of it! :)
Your comment about receiving discounts and coupons from the retailers requires more analysis.
You can STILL use those coupons/reward discounts and then benefit from the cash back on the NET amount AFTER coupons/rewards are deducted. For example, I had a $50 Dick's Rewards coupon. I purchased two dozen Titleist Pro V golf balls. Net amount was $45. I received 5% cash back on those purchases AND paid no shipping because my original order was over $50!
Well, I think the STE members have presented the system in a more favorable light than I portrayed; it seems to be a pretty good deal for those that are in it now. There hasn't really been any input from folks who quit or opted not to join.
My friend who initially approached me seems happy; he's signed up a few people so he's made his money back. Like I said, there are pros, there are cons and a lack of transparency in my opinion, but overall, this seems to be a better deal than ACN or some of the other ones I've seen friends get invovled in.
To be frank, when I initially thought you could set up the discount store site (Earn, not Earth) and earn points that way, I thought it was ideal that I already had thousands of visitors per week, and those discounts were a decent value to offer, so I'd have tons of business. It was the Shop To Earth-specific selling piece that turned me off. I also probably could have signed up several people a month through this site if I were routinely posting about it. Working through the left/right imbalance piece also concerned me. In the end, it just wasn't for me for various reasons. Foremost was the prospect of trying to sell something to people that I didn't really believe in. Might sound corny, but it really came down to that.
As this has pretty much turned into a posting board for existing members at this point, I'm going close the article to new comments. There are plenty of forums for STE and I think I've provided ample opportunity now for both sides of the story to be heard.
I'd like to express my gratitude for the respectful dialogue from members whos organization I criticized on the site. All comments were able to be posted due to your professionalism.
If there are any stories, tidbits, corrections that you feel need to be added/highlighted, feel free to send me an email via contact tab above and I could always do a follow-up post.
Back open for Comments.
Fire Away!
Here is an easy explanation: A pyramid is made of suckers at the bottom and scammers at the top. Just like any other business...There is no money making for the sucker who gives up $450 bucks so that the money goes up the pyramid, which he just joined at the bottom. Then the only way this sucker will make his money back, or any money at all for that matter, is by suckering other people into being below him on this pyramid.
In the end there is always more suckers than scammers, so why people join? because they look at those scammers getting paid to do nothing and they think they can do that too. But they don't SUCKERS!!
This is NOT a Pyramid, Ladies and Gentlemen! I can technically make more money than the person that brought me in. Its all about how you place your people in your business. People that make it in the real world are decision makers. Not Speculators. If you did your research and saw how the business actually runs you will see there is no illegalities involved.
As in any major company or workforce, you have people that do not do their share of the work, yet still expect to be paid. Unfortunately, that is a growing trend in America....a free ride. MLMs are not a free ride and never pass themselves off as a get rich quick kind of business opportunity. If you are dogging MLM companies, most likely you are guilty of not having done your fair share. The company in question has done a good job of presenting a business opportunity wherin you don't have to buy inventory, buy marketing materials, have monthly overhead, sell ONE product, attend mandatory meetings...etc. etc. There is a viable product here and is one which every American can appreciate....getting paid cash back discounts when you shop and getting paid to refer others to do the same. Where else in America right now can you start your own business with so little risk and with so much benefit? Not to mention the income potential. This company is revolutionary in it's thinking.....don't knock it unless you've done your research.
This is DEFINITELY NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME. Anyone can make more money than the person above them. it is all about what you put into it and who you have on your team. I have been in this company over 6 weeks now, and have already made my money back and have already been PAID - direct deposited, so this is also not a scam. I just read a lot of negative comments about shop to earn from people who really know nothing about it. In fact, many of their comments are simply UNTRUE. As for the $100 minimum spending per month requirement - there are over 70 companies, and so much to choose from - soap, shampoo, detergent, toilet paper, vitamins, hair care, skin care, household cleaners, and the list goes on and on. its stuff THAT YOU NEED TO BUY ANYWAYS, so why not buy them from environmentally conscious companies? They will even have BIODEGRADABLE DIAPERS soon! Anybody with a baby knows the expense of diapers... anyways, TO ANYBODY WHO IS CONSIDERING SHOP TO EARN, IT IS A LEGITIMATE OPPORTUNITY WITH REAL EARNING POTENTIAL AND YOU WOULD BE A FOOL TO LISTEN TO SOME HATER BLOGGER THAT DOESNT EVEN HAVE THE FACTS RIGHT. GO TO THE WEBSITE AND DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK. I leave you with one question... if this were illegal or a scheme in anyway, why would some of the biggest names in retail including Home Depot, Targe, Best Buy and Walmart be affiliated with it? Makes you wonder, huh?
And to chime in on the comment above, show me one business in America, other than perhaps a mom/pop shop or a family owned restaurant, that isn't a pyramid? Microsoft is, IBM is, McDonalds is, BK as well, and I'm curious how much would those who critizice STE would have to pay to operate a fast food joint with the McDonalds name on it, 1/2 M? 1/4 M?
Oh yes, the Corporate Counsel for Shop to Earn/Earth, Gerry Nehra, happens to be an attorney who not only has 36 years practicing law, was the General Counsel, and a Director of Amway, and the General Counsel for IBM, but he's also an attorney who specializes in MLM. You'd think the man knows MLM backwards and forwards and would know EXACTLY how to keep the company legal.
Oh yes, the $100.00 requirement from Shop to Earth does not begin until after the 2nd full month, and it doesn't have to be the broker/website owner who purchases it; there just has to be a minimum of $100.00 purchased on that member's portal.
JOE O. Says:
I THOUGHT this was a legit blog site, but they keep taking this post down , . . I thought this was a true open forum for STE, unlike a certain other person who blogs poetic on two other sites under the guise that SHE is saving stupid people from wasting their $448. Whenever a correction or a valid point is made, it doesn't get printed. SHE is all about her self-promotion to her people that drink HER Kool Aid- oh and selling books. "I say this and I says that" SHE says "you're welcome" -pathetic really. I take great pleasure knowing that I was instrumental in submitting such consistent common sense and facts that she omitted my posts and shut down her STE forum! I showed her the money I made - and she didn't like that either.
Let's face it, only time will tell if STE passes the test of time. MLM's are not for everyone. I was sooooo against this just 5 months ago. I was running for the hills. I tried Amway 15 years ago for 1-2 months and then I failed at Primerica back in 1996. I wish I had the fortitude to keep up with Primerica though - did you know that Primerica grew so large it bought Travelers, Salomon Brothers, Smith Barney and then merged with Citibank. Kind of neat knowing that one of the largest US companies ever is owned by an MLM. Some Primerica friends of mine retired at age 35. Check the facts! just google Primerica. Needless to say, SHE didn't like these facts. She posted them for a day or so and then took them down.
Shop to Earn is an amazing opportunity folks. Times have changed, its 2008 - the internet is a household mega tool, and we all know that MLM's CAN work extremely well. Maybe this is one of them? Stay home, save, gas, time, money and the planet - can you have any better timing? While my 401k gets lower eveyday, I have made almost $50,000 in less than 5 months and the future looks great. This will increase every month and I'm on track for $150,000 a month by 2010 - if it takes me until 2011 I will just have to live with that.
I have scores of people thanking me for the introduction. Those that aren't selling web-portals for commissions and growing their base like me are not dismayed - since they have a great on-line shopping mall returning 3-30% cash back. There is no 'buyer's remorse' with Shop to Earn because everyone can get cash back from the webportal they bought AND they can make a business out of it if they so choose. If they don't it's not so bad. If they shop on line anyway, they will be just fine. BTW, no need to even spend $100/month on the earth side unles you are scoring the $600 commissions - but you STILL get $100 for referring someone a site. Pretty neat . . . and compliant with all the rules.
Yeah there supposedly are on-line shopping malls for less costs, but do they give you $100 for referring a friend their own web-portal? Please note - you get paid a commission for selling a web-portal product on the STE system. Kind of like selling shares in a co-op or a Personal Seat License at a Football Stadium. You don't actually own the plastic seat, but you do own the rights and that is indeed a commodity. This is not recruiting, this is selling something of value. This is the legal view of the STE program and the main reason why STE has grown to north of 50,000 people in 6 months. And will have well over 100,000 by X-mas.
I have dozens of NJ/NY area attorneys and CPAs involved - some even have weekly meetings at their offices. Would these "professional types" be willing to risk their reputations and licenses without doing their due dilligence? I think not.
So bash away, I know you negative people like to hang together. Truth is, MLM's are not easy money - they are very challenging, you'd rather sit in your cubicle. Its safe and easy and mainstream. God bless people like you. Even though the demand will reduce every year, we will need you for at least another century or so.
Me, I will sit back and watch my downline add 100+ people a week like it has the last few weeks. I missed out on Primerica because I listened to too many "common sense" people.
It will NOT happen again. I have met a few people that are making over $100k a month after just 6-7 months. Me and my large group of friends will soon be there too!
Cheers!
I would like to add a comment about the misinformation above regarding the "mandatory" $100. spending requirement of ShopToEarth. First of all, it is not a "mandatory requirement"...if you don't want to spend the $100. that's fine...you just forfeit your accumulated points for that month. There are just 2 requirements that STE has to receive commissions...Refer 2 people (ever) and generate $100. shopping from ShopToEarth. This requirement starts after your first 2 mos. of membership. If you don't meet the requirements, no big deal...you don't lose your position, you can still shop and get cash-back discounts, you don't get "fired".
Secondly, there IS value in the product. I personally saved $33.00 from one online shopping purchase through my site. I spent a total of $88.00. These were regular everyday items that I would have bought from my local drugstore.
Ignorance is bliss...Education is valuable!
JoeO says . . .
So let me get this straight, MLM's are scams and simply don't work because most people fail? hmmm like 95% of the people will just not make it huh? And this is proven when see a few website’s with a measly $15.00 profit/cashback??
Well then, using that logic, why doesn't the FTC shut down Weight Watchers? and Slim Fast? and Jenny Craig and Nutrisystem? The facts are the same - 95% of the people that join these weight loss programs don't lose any weight. AND if they do, they put it back on and sometimes even more - which is even worse.
They SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUY TV COMMERCIALS AND BILLBOARDS! If 95% of the people will just waste their time and money, shouldn’t they be shut down? Isn't all this just a scam to get them to pay their membership dues and buy their prepared frozen dinners and snack bars? SCAM!!!! If you are overweight and can't lose weight IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT !!! You've simply been scammed by diet programs that are statistically proven to never work for 95% of the population. So logically you should just give up and don't try to lose weight and get healthy, right?? - don't even try!!!
Oh, and by the way, if you happen to find a program that DOES work for you and you actually lost weight and kept it off DO NOT SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH ANYONE. YOUR FRIENDS WILL HATE YOU FOR IT!!! Because let's face it, you lost some weight but they probably still won't. So keep it to yourself!
If my friend was making money with STE and didn’t tell me about it, then he is not a friend.
Peggy H--You are incorrect about not spending $100 if you don't have commissions this month.
Minimum purchases required to get your commissions - In order to get your money from recruiting and shopping you have to have at least $100 in shopping purchases on your site. Some STE representatives say that it’s simple… if you don’t have any commission coming, you don’t buy the $100. Except it’s not quite that simple. The contract says “…$100 of monthly business volume must be generated to qualify for next month’s commissions.” That means you have to spend $100 this month, in order to get commissions next month. How do you know if you’ll have any commissions coming next month? You don’t. So many will spend the $100 this month just to be safe. MLMs make sure to get money out of you with these minimums. Sure, you could get people to shop on your site to make the minimum (or in the case of other MLMS you could sell $100 of product). But the sad fact is that most of the representatives aren’t able to do that, and will instead put their own money in to meet the minimum. They hope they’ll recover it via commissions, but 99% won’t.
To anonymous (whoever you are!): I am not going to get into a debate about semantics regarding the $100. shopping requirement. I never said that if you don't have commissions, you don't have to shop. If you re-read my post, you will learn that my point was this:
No one loses their position, rank or ability to earn future commissions if they don't spend the $100. p/mo. One could always get back in the game and do some work to earn more money.
Why are people so eager to bash MLMs? Again, where else in America can you start your own biz in 15 min. with $448.00 - start saving money and refer 3-4 people and make your initial investment back. PLUS, have the potential to earn ALOT more. I was spending more than that each month marketing my mortgage biz with NO return.
Bottom line: If you're not willing to put some effort into an MLM, do us all a favor and don't join!
Joe O says:
WRONG !!!! about the $100 minimum!
Mr OR Mrs. Anonymous who posted on 10/10 at 12:58 pm addressing Peggy H. Are you intentionally spewing the wrong info to try to deflate people? or are you just very confused?
you wrote:
"Minimum purchases required to get your commissions - In order to get your money from recruiting and shopping you have to have at least $100 in shopping purchases on your site. Some STE representatives say that it’s simple… if you don’t have any commission coming, you don’t buy the $100. Except it’s not quite that simple. "
SORRY, IT IS THAT SIMPLE!!
you then wrote:
"The contract says “…$100 of monthly business volume must be generated to qualify for next month’s commissions.” That means you have to spend $100 this month, in order to get commissions next month. How do you know if you’ll have any commissions coming next month? You don’t."
WRONG WRONG WRONG INFO!!
First off, YOU ALWAYS RECEIVE YOUR $100 REFERRAL FEES for all the people you refer regardless of whether you spent $100 on the Earth side AND YOU ALWAYS GET YOUR CASH BACK ON ANY PURCHASES WHATSOEVER. You bought a web-portal that gives you cash back AND you get $100 if you receommend this web-portal. This has NOTHING to do with "qualifying to score" and the point system.
AND there is absolutley NO guess-work regarding whether you need to spend the $100 on the Shop to Earth side to get your score commissions. No guess-work at all.
If you generated the 4,800 points through people UNDER YOU shopping and/or selling web-portals to others and have at least 1/3 of these points (1,600) on one leg or the other you are eligible to "score" the $550 + $50 bonus for gas BUT you must be "qualified" during that month. Part of the qualification is the $100 on the Earth side.
So if someone sees that they have scored once or more than once DURING THE MONTH OF OCTOBER then they better spend the $100 on Earth during THAT SAME MONTH, to receive their direct deposit on Nov 21st. So you can simply check on the last day of the month to see if you have score commissions coming and know whether you need to buy $100 on Earth side. Which by the way, gives you $20 bucks back immediately and generates 20 points also! So its really only $80bux and are getting some pretty good stuff. I usually buy a bunch of Cliff bars and granola bars for the kids'lunch boxes, among other great stuff.
My goal is to eventually 20,000 people under me shopping and generating a minimum of 20 points each and every month! that's 400,000 points a month and a serious residual income! Some people are already there in just 7 months and are making 100's of thousands of dollars a month already. Incredible. No lie. I have met these people - they are regular people at the right place at the right time AND a great attitude about helping others get healthy and wealthy. I'm just months behind them, if it takes a few years - that's ok too.
SHOP TO EARN is truly a wonderful program!
How is STE different from KM.net which sold internet malls to consumers to make cash back from their purchases and from others shopping on their Web site? This was shut down by Michigan's attorney general. Here's the link-
http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/Report_KMNET.html
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, humm, me thinks it is a duck! Yes some at the top maybe making money but it is tainted and STE has NEVER put out any FAQs or statements indicating how their business model differs from an illegal pyramid scheme. On the contrary, when folks try to point out the issues, STE lawyer, Gerald Nehra threatens them with a lawsuit. His communication did not have one statement rebutting any of the claims.
Do you want it and do you want to haul your friends and family into the ring?
Anything of serious attention would be traded on NYSE or NASDAQ....
Until I see it public trades with the SEC watching over it, I will refrain......
Mr. Stockman
I believe that anything of substance would be traded on the NYSE or Nasdaq with the SEC watching over it...
Until such time, I personally will wait until it is traded on the free market with regulation.
I believe it should be done on an open market like NYSE or NASDAQ
JoeO says:
Hmmm, yes, maybe you should wait until STE goes public and trades on the NYSE! which may be next year, or 5 years from now or never. Some of the very best and largest companies in the world are privately held,why? because they don't need the public's money, they are self-funding and growing just fine.
STE is a new company that is just getting started. We are talking about "investing" $448 and a great chance to at least get your money back and if you work hard a chance to pay your mortgage and bills and possibly even retire early.
There are millions people that are losing $448 every minute investing in NYSE companies as I type this very blog.
Ste is a great company that is well on its way to being the darling of the internet in just a few short years. They will have over 1 million web-site owners by 2010.
I agree with this last comment that JoeO is saying.
MLM or Direct Sales organizations are not synonomous with "Pyramid" schemes. "Pyramid" schemes are fraudulent business enterprises and against the law. Furthermore, being listed on the NYSE or the NASDAQ does not guarantee a positive financial return. Those comments are made by those who have not done thier homework. Many have acquired great wealth with a privately held company, especially during the organization's growth whether it chooses to go public or not. MLMs are just another way to add income to your household but you must be savvy when selecting one of these organizations. The first red flag with STE is the fact that it is not a member of the DSA which is the national trade association regulating ethics among MLMs. There is not even an application pending. The second red flag is the binary compensation plan. These compensation plans are designed for short term rewards and rarely reap a long term residual income. Binary plans are designed for a few (the ones that jump in early) to earn a lot of income and then the organization dissolves and fizzles away. If short term rewards is what you are looking for then jump in quick. But if you are looking for a long-term residual income to supplement your retirement portfolio then search for a MLM with a more stable compensaton plan and is a member of the DSA.
It is not a requirement to pay 448 to join shop to Earn, you can start as a business builder for 99 dollars, once you refer you first website owner or broker, you get 100 dollars back, refer 4 more and will have not only the 379 to pay for it but also 21 dollars more, there is really nothing to lose, this is only for people who really want to work a little and get good money in a long term, plus get cash back on all purchases once you become at least a website owner.
I don't see the scam, unless you are planning to get money without any effort at all you will get your money back.
It is true that you are able to get cash back through credit cards, but most of the people I know have lost their credit these days, so it is not really something that everybody can access these days.
It is a great alternative, all businesses require some effort at the beginning, this is the easiest and risk free I have ever seen.
If Dell, Sony, Toys R us have joined I sure don't want to doubt of the capability of their directors on making great business decisions.
I have made 1145 in 2 weeks, I have not lost a penny, and I have a great door opened now for days to come, this is a new revolutionary way of ecommerce most of people is not even use to buy on line yet, it will take time.
Shop to earn is a scam. Shop to earn is also not a scam.
I've been to one of the "parties". The thing is, those who're making money are smart business people. People who could go make $2,000/month easily+ doing somethng else.
For the numbers game, MOST WILL NOT MAKE MONEY! If you think "all you have to do is sign up 2 people" and from there you're going to get rich, BS!
If you've been a slacker, no education, no business savvy, etc ...you probably wont succeed. I'm sure some do, but it's VERY VERY VERY RARE! Getting your money back and then some is pretty easy.
Another point, you dont "OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS" with shop to earn. They own you, your website and everything you do till they decide to call it quits. You are basically an employee on contact working on free will with no hours or offices to go into.
I have to feel comfortable with making money. The fact is, 90%+ will lose their money and never get anywhere. If you've made a few bucks awesome!!! But realize, pyramid MLM's always crumble eventually.
I would consider Shop To Earn a decent MLM opportunity. However, most of you (close to all) WILL FAIL at the dream of even making money to support your bills.
And I swear, if one of the lawyers emails me or I get some hate email ...you'll be hearing from my lawyer.
Obviously you haven't read the entire blog or other blogs out there. Making money by recruiting others is a classic pyramid and illegal. You said that to shop online you need a credit card and that's a problem for many people these days. So, you are only making money by recruiting others. Watch out for the FTC to shut this "business" down.
According to Anonymous, we better go arrest everyone who recruits....oh, wait a minute, every successful business must recruit. Your legal counsel has misled you. As long as the business profits from both recruiting and the sale of either products or services, it is a legal business. All good businesses recruit talent to help them reach a larger audience with thier products and services. Network Marketing or MLM businesses are viable business models and now being taught in major Univerities. MLM is also endorced by respected billionaires such as Robert Kyosaki, Donald Trump, and Shad Helmstetter. Having said that, not all MLM organizations are created equal. My opinion is that STE will dissolve quickly because of either the unstable comp plan or the inferior discount services that are offered. I have been asked by a few friends to research this company for them and it simply does not appear stable as a long term investment. If you do get involved, work hard and make as much money as you can quickly.
I must say, I'm completely disgussted by the negative comments that come by here...I cant believe anyone in here would consider using the word "scam" with a company virtually partnered up with over 450 of the finest retailers in the nation. I have been a broker for only 2 weeks now and have already accumulated over over $2,000 in revenue and I am currently on pace to make well over $4,000 if I continue my efforts. Bottom line, and i dont what anyone says...there are no free rides in life. I have been a hard labor worker all my life and its because of the hard work I put in my company that has brought me where I am. So shop to earn is no different. If you want to make good money, you have to put a good amount of time and effort to see the return you hope for.
The required $100 that you end up spending will eventually pay for itself x10 when you build a strong enough network. The beauty thing about this is that EVERYONE has to spend the $100 which means you get anywhere between 15-30 points from everyone in your network. If you dont have many people in your network and you are complaining about the $100 a month, stop crying about and go out and find people to join! It's not rocket science...it's no different than google referring people to "advertised" links when you search for something. The retailer pays google as well. I know this because the company I own does the same thing...I pay google everytime they refer someone to my site...The retailers pay STE everytime STE refers a customer to the retailer site...what in the world is so difficult to underdstand???
To all the negative commenters...stop making your assumptions about how the system works...you havent tried and you are probably who will never ever try an MLM so keep your opinions to yourself...you are messing with mine and many others livihood who truly believe in this concept. I understand there are many people who were not successful with STE and i can gaurantee that they were individuals who thought they would make a whole lot of money doing nothing...well i got news for you people...get a real job and work!!!
There is nothing on the market today with such a little invesmant with this type of return...so if you fail...dont blame the system...blame yourself!!!
If you investted $450 in AIG a year ago you would have $0!!!!! so stop your complaining and do yourself a favor, stop wasting your time bashing my business and go out and spend the stupid you have spent to feel good about yourself nitpicking MLM's and get a real job!!!
This is a side business to me and by no means do i intend to make this something full time...so God forbid the longevity happens to fall beneath the cracks...i can live with that because this is just a bonus to my life.
So stop killing for the people who are actually putting the time and effort into it...guess what people...WE ARE MAKING MONEY!!!! VERY GOOD MONEY...so haters...hate all you want...cause we are already laughing at you
Thanks and good luck to STE members...I know you already have many success stories and I would love for you to post here so the idiots can stop talking and start doing!!!
OUT!
joe O. says
I am also a succesful STE broker. I just passed $50,000 and I have 885 people in my group in less than 5 months. Part-time work, and its been a lot of fun!
Just because some angry web bloggers do some BS research and can't find what they are looking for and then posts a list of questions that no one feels like answering doesn't mean he is the judge and jury and the case is closed. If you look up ANY closely-held, private business you will not find any pertinent information. ZERO. Unless it needs to be licensed or registered like and insurance agency or bank. Even then its very limited. If a company is an "S" corp, like STE is, the Fed id# is a personal social security number. Therefore its not available. Period. Move on. Ask your CPA and he will tell you the same.
And even though STE has taken in over $25,000,000 already, its can be an "S" corp forever.
The reason why STE is safe, secure and totally legit is because that all 60,000 website owners to date were NOT recruited. They were sold a product. This product is a web-portal that enables you to get cash back. Plain and simple. Let me repeat that:
legally and technically and however you want to skin this cat - people are buying a web-portal/cash back product, therefore it is not recruiting. Sorry to disappoint you.
You may disagree with this fact, and you may think it's an over-priced web-portal, but that's your opinion. 60,000 people liked it and bought one. Its a free country. They will have 300,000 people by the end of 2009. You make think it can be done for free, but the free web-portals do NOT have the same high level pay-outs. They keep a few % points for their profits. Which is fine. That's THEIR business model.
If you've done your research, you will plainly see that the real future of Shop to Earn / Shop to Earth is the on-line Earth friendly store. This is THEIR OWN EARTH FRIENDLY PRODUCTS STORE. They are literally giving away all of the cash-back from the famous retail stores, every penny so that they can drive people to their "Earth" store. Pretty neat idea isn't it? We all know that this e-commerce game is about driving traffic to your site.
The goal is to have a massive following to their earth-friendly on-line store "Shop to Earth" that carries thousands of brand-name products. NOT proprietary juices or scientific super foods, just mainstream, popular brands that make 100% organic foods and biodegradeable detergents and such. They give 15-30% cash back on brands with loyal followers of Avalon Organics, Zone Diet Bars, Cliff Bars, Twinlab, Kiss My Face, True Green etc. Right now, because they are new in the fulfillment industry, the prices aren't super-low. Maybe they are even marked up 15% only to get 25% back? Whatever. They still have competitive pricing compared to your local health food stores and the same dry goods at any Trader Joe's or Whole Foods market. Of course they are buying in bulk just like any distributor and are probably making 40-55% on these popular products - just like Trader Joe's and any local health food store is entitled to.
So the business model is pretty darn smart. Get 1 million people involved with their own web-portal, and every time they log on they have "SHOP TO EARTH' staring them in the face. Maybe they spend some money there and get themselves a little healthier, maybe they don't. But if only half the people spent a mere 1,000 a year that's $500,000,000 in sales and with a 40-50% profit margin, they make $250 million dollars and will be the largest health food store on the internet. And this can all happen in the next few years. Imagine a company that has half a billion in sales and NO advertising costs!!! This why people like me and my group can make millions as well. If people who like to shop on line and are 'earth friendly' use their web-portal and get some cash back there are no victims. This is truly a brilliant business plan really.
So a legit business? ABSOLUTLEY. Finanically secure future? ABSOLUTLEY.
This has been thought out and planned out by a lot smarter people than you and me. So either jump in and get involved or watch on the sidelines and hope your bad karma somehow will affect ste.
Don't be a negative loser!! If you don't want to get involved that's fine, but you have to tip your hat to a great idea!
FYI folks, JoeO is the same guy that shilled as 8 DIFFERENT people on another blog. This was until the blog author got so fed up and called him out on it and showed that all of his posts came from the same IP address.
Joe O - so you are making a ton of cash selling this fabulous product? Well since June, you have made only $79.87 from shopping online of which $55.62 came from the mandatory purchase from the overly inflated ShopToEarth products. Of yeah, you have a great product you're selling to your friends and family which they can do for free elsewhere. At this rate you will make about $200 from shopping but don't forget you are paying way too much for the ShopToEarth products than if you bought them elsewhere. So figure you will make about $150 in one year from shopping which doesn't offset the $448 to purchase the web page. How are you making that money? Oh yeah, from the illegal pyramid scheme not from the product. This has an FTC gotcha written all over it. Wal-Mart found out and cancelled the afflitiate link and others will follow. Same some of your cash for your lawsuit when the feds catch up to you. They already know your IP address, name and business address. Is orange a good color for you?
To the anonymous post 10/28 1:20pm:
Where in the world do you get your information!?!?! You seriously make me sick!!! This is the anonymous poster from 10/24 2:41 am.
You are such stupid human being to make the comments you just made. Do your homework idiot!
This is very similar to costco and sam's club...you pay them a fee to shop at there stores and you also have to pay an annual renewal fee and they also give 2% back on your purchases!!!! ITS NO DIFFERENT HERE IDIOT!!!
You pay $450 to shop and earn from the site...you also happen to get a referral bonus for getting people to shop on the site too which i will admit...they make a very high profit margin on but why in the world would that matter to me when I'm making money for spending $100 a month!!! You are such a pathetic human being and in an economy thats hurting so much, you have the nerve to try and bash our business while we are here expressing to you that WE ARE MAKING MONEY...stop looking in from the sidelines and nit picking what you "Think" is going on...leave ur bs comments to yourself...this is killing me right now how you even have the nerve or the time of day to come on here and try to ruin peoples livlihood...get a life man!
I am not trying to ruin anyone's livlihood if it was legit. This forum is to provide information for those new to MLMs and FTC laws. Beware before you participate with STE. This comes from another site--
"Having been in the MLM industry for 14 year s(and having been a six-figure annual earner in a company that got shut down by the FTC for making medical claims), I am very sensitive to MLM companies that are not in compliance.
I was at a ShopToEarn meeting the other evening, and the presenter was showing top earners' 'checks' on the Shop to Earn site. Big red flag!
I asked if I just wanted to be a customer, how much would it cost? About $400! I asked what percentage of their base of people who have signed up were just customers. The presenter said hardly any. HUGE RED FLAG!
I can save more at another shopping site I have access to (as a free member) than I do at ShopToEarn, not even taking into consideration I would have to pay about $400 to have the privilege!
Just because people are making a lot of fast money means absolutely nothing. Value your reputation, and get the facts on FTC laws before you get too carried away.
Don't be uninformed. The FTC can come after you too. As a top 50 earner of the company I was in that got shut down, we were told the FTC was coming after us too, as well as the company. They fined the company $3 million, and the top two earners, respectively, $1 million and $500,000. I was fortunate- they never came after the rest of us. But I lived in fear for a year.
A couple in my group had to file bankruptcy after the closure of the company. I will never again get involved in anything I think is questionable- too many people get hurt. It's not just about you- it's about the people you bring in.
Think- if it sounds too good to be true, it is!"
The last comments made by "Annonomous" are ethical and true. I am a long time Network Marketer and a believer in this business. Those that do this as a professtion encourage others to succeed as it only helps the entire market. But when organizations open to earn quick money, for a short time, and only for a few people the entire industry gets a bad name that the rest of us have to overcome.
Savvy network marketers know that if an organizaiton pays its consultants more to bring people in than it pays in commissions for the sale of a product or service, the organizaiton is not only questionable but not stable for the long term. Also, if it is not approved by the Direct Selling Association, why risk yourself and your friends or family?
Think about it, are you being honest with your recruits and have you done your research? Or are you just making a buck off of them? There is risk in everthing, but ethical business people weigh that risk before bringing others on board. If this falls apart or the company gets indicted by the FTC, how many of your friends and family will trust you the next time? Just a thought. Those of us who have been in network marketing and have made this industry a career see these companies come and go and are left to deal with the skepticism left behind.
no one is saying it sounds too good to be true moron...it's a committment that you have to work on just like any successful MLM is out there. There is "work" involved...nothing comes in for free...like in any business you have to start to establish your business and in the long run once the business has been established things start to get easier.
What kind of MLM were you in for the FTC to come after you? Why dont you explain the product/service you were offering before comparing shop to earn to just any MLM...shoptoearn is a very practical concept and yes you can go to other sites and probably shop for free...but millions of people still join costco and sams club and renew their memberships every year when they can probably shop around and find deals as good or better...stop comparing apples to oranges!!!
And just so you know...the $349 to become a shopper was made for schools and fundraisers. If a group wants to have a site they can pay just the $350 and people who want to support their organizaion or fundraiser can begin to shop at their site and all the earnings will go to whatever cause they are working on...way to go pal! u truly are a saint! (sarcasm) just do yourself a favor and sit back and wait to see what happens. We are only a network of about 60,000 people and its continueing to grow daily...a $450 investment is not as big of deal as people express it is...you mean to tell me you cant refer 4 people to the business in on year? That would get your return on the investment already! And you dont "HAVE" to spend the $100 if you dont want to...you just wont get paid whatever commissions are owed to you that month...if you make less than $100 in commissions that month then you sit and wait til the next month!
The key is to be informed!!! Indeed. Finally someone making sense.
A negative blog site does not inform anyone. It just makes sweeping generalizations that are silly and childish and insults people's intelligence.
If you do your own STE research as I have, you will see that this is a winner. These STE guys have made extra certain they are in compliance. It CAN be done ya know. You can start an MLM and learn from errors of past companies and make it work.
Just because some uninformed, random bloggers claim its all about recruiting yada yada DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. It just doesn't - sorry.
I have written over and over again, in detail, as to why STE is in perfect order and will stand any test that any gov't regulators may ever want to implement. No one argues my valid points, all I get is "you're crazy" or go on Jerry Springer crap. No actual intelligent rebuttals.
Shop to Earn is a nice company that is flourishing for a reason - Because it works - and no one is even complaining besides the same 5-10% of unhappy campers that every group in society has.
Answer me this: If someone decides to pay $448 for a cash-back web-portal that works fine, even if there are cheaper models out there (which just don't pay as much cash-back - but whatever, that's irrelevant), what is the problem? If they don't use their web-portal and/or don't shop enough to get their $448 back is that a scam? What are they going to even complain about to the FTC?
If I sign up for costco and never go there, should I call the FTC and ask for my money back?
If someone sells me an Ipod and makes a commission and I never use it, was I scammed?
If I refer a friend to join my YMCA and I get a few free months for doing so, and this friend never shows up to exercise and swim, did I scam them? Should they call their congressman or the FBI or the FTC?
Again, STE is not selling "recruitment kits for
$448" now THAT would be a red flag, THEY ARE SELLING PEOPLE A PRODUCT FROM THE GET-GO. So far60,000 people simply bought a cash-back web-portal that works just fine. So what is the big friggin' deal?
joe o.
Everyone clearly has thier own bias' built into thier "opinions". I respect the fact that you feel strongly about yours. However, I do not understand why you choose to disrespect the opinions of others and resort to petty name calling. This is supposed to be an open forum of shared information and opinions. Have you heard the saying, " Thou doth protest too much!"
I am not the individual who claimed to be in a company that was indicted by the FTC and I certainly hope that does not happen to your organization as I have a few friends involved already. However, I am the one that said I have a great respect for Network Marketing as this is my career choice. I have built a strong and profitable organization which took time, focus, and effort to accomplish. I merely advise that binary pay plans are notoriously unstable and organizations who reward more for recruits than for the sale of a product or service usually fizzle out quickly. I say this because of my research with http://www.dsa.org, with Citigroup Global, and from my own experience. Stable MLM's have seen organizations like yours come and go. I am not saying there isn't money to be made, just make it quickly and be honest with your prospects so that when either you or someone else offers them a real opportunity of a lifetime, they will not be too dissallusioned to listen!
I love the intelligent feedback! I have read your previous blogs and they appear researched and thought out. I have also contributed similar feedback regarding recruiting and selling products/services. All businesses recruit talent to reach a larger market. I really do not see STE as an illegal business venture. However, because of the binary compensation plan and the fact that they still do not belong to the DSA makes me believe STE will not be around very long. There are some key factors to consider when considering a MLM business:
1. Consumable products/best value in category (this is where being overpriced may be an issue in time.)
2. Marketplace Demand - your consumer is anyone that buys stuff so that is a good point for STE.
3. Timing & Trends - an e-commerce business is definitely in line with the times.
4. Leveragability- this is where your comp plan looks good on the front end, but may not be one that you can walk away from and draw a passive income. Binary plans are almost always unstable even though people are attracted to them because finding 2 people seems "Easy" when in truth, nothing in MLM is easy. The real goal is to work really hard for a few years building a network of consumers that one day will not need you anymore, thus, passive income.
5. Member of the DSA - big problem here, and it is probably because they do not want the comp plan or the pricing dissected.
6. At least 5-yrs-old - it will be great if STE makes it but 90% of all businesses fail in the 1st 5 yrs. It is a simple fact.
Again, I wish you early starters in STE the best of luck with your business and only time will tell.
I guess the logic is finally sinking in here and cooler heads are prevailing.
STE is not about recruiting, not even close. It's all about selling cash-back shopping web-portals. When you refer someone you earn $100.00 You do get that $100 every time, and keep in mind you do NOT need to spend any money on the "Earth" side to get this $100 referral fee.
As long as the product (web-portals) work and people do get their cash back for shopping, STE will never have any legal issues. Who could complain? What would the complaint even be? That they didn't shop enough to get their money's worth? That they couldn't refer anyone and earn a few extra $100? That is not STE's fault.
Who cares where they are domiciled and whether you can find an address? We all deal with internet vendors all the time. I often deal with Travelocity when I travel, I spend thousands on every trip, everything usually goes pretty smoothly, I have no idea where they are located , it may be India for all I know. I can't be bothered to even care. I get what I pay for and I'm happy.
So far 60,000 STE web-portals have been sold in the last 7 months and all is well. Why would the FTC or anyone, even you bloggers, be concerned about STE if the cash-back web portals that people buy are working? This is not even worth discussing.
JoeO
There are dreamers, and there are DOERS. The only way you're ever going to make something happen is by getting off your butt and doing it. For those of you hating, find something better to do with your time. We wouldn't want you in this business anyways. For those of you thinking about getting involved with STE, sometimes you have to take chances in life. Lets think about this... what's the worst that could happen? you're out $450. You'd still have your site and be able to buy whatever you want and enjoy cash back. You'd save time and gas by shopping from the convenience of your own home. Big whoop. $450 isn't a lot of money. Now, what's the best thing that could happen? Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think the latter. I personally know people in this business who will be able to quit their jobs soon, and some who have already done so. Although I am not quite there yet, I have already earned double my invesment back. I do not feel one bit 'suckered' into anything. Instead, I feel grateful to have been given this opportunity and thank my dear friend for insisting that I learn about this opportunity. I had to make a decision. Do I sit on my butt and dream about being wealthy, or do I take a chance on an opportunity to make myself wealthy? Fact is, Amway has been around nearly 40 years. STE is better in so many ways - better commision structure, affiliated with huge names like Target and Home Depot, and aims to spread GREEN awareness, which is awesome in my book. STE will definitely last way more than five years and I believe will be bigger and better than Amway. When will you ever have an opportunity to get in to something on GROUND LEVEL???
"There 3 types of people in this world: those who WAIT for things to happen, those who MAKE things happen, and those who ask, what happened?". Do yourself a favor and take a chance. You won't be sorry that you did. And if you've been avoiding your friend's calls because you know he/she's been trying to 'get you in', be a better friend and CALL THEM BACK. You're friends with them for a reason and you should at least give them the time and respect they deserve.
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT A LOT OF THE ANONYMOUS POSTS ARE BEING POSTED BY THE SAME PERSON, joeo. joeo IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE POSTS AND HAS BEEN BS'ing ON NUMEROUS WEBSITES. HE HAS ADMITTED TO OWNING NUMEROUS ste WEBSITES AND CLAIMING UNTRUE NUMBERS.
Joeo is the same guy who has 36 people on his left and 319 on his right. Really out of balance there Joe. Is that why you blog? You need to sign more suckers up on your left? Also, in five months you have made a whopping $174.37 from shopping and $59.80 of that came from a Shop To Earn seminar that cost you an additional $299. Of the $174.37, $115.42 came from the mandatory $100 monthly purchase of the overly inflated Shop to Earth junk that you would never have purchased in the first place. Who are you kidding? You are not selling a valuable "Website" to family and friends. Family and friends won't even break even from shopping at their own site for $448 plus $119 annually. It's a ploy for recruitment. Think about it--60000 people times $448 is over 26 million dollars for these guys. Soon they will close up shop, disappear and reappear under a new name. It has happened time and time again. It's just a matter of time before the rest of us get to say--"WE TOLD YOU SO".
JoeO says . . .
So let me get this straight, MLM's are scams and simply don't work because most people fail? hmmm like 95% of the people will just not make it huh? And this is proven when see a few website’s with a measly $15.00 profit/cashback??
Well then, using that logic, why doesn't the FTC shut down Weight Watchers? and Slim Fast? and Jenny Craig and Nutrisystem? The facts are the same - 95% of the people that join these weight loss programs don't lose any weight. AND if they do, they put it back on and sometimes even more - which is even worse.
They SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BUY TV COMMERCIALS AND BILLBOARDS! If 95% of the people will just waste their time and money, shouldn’t they be shut down? Isn't all this just a scam to get them to pay their membership dues and buy their prepared frozen dinners and snack bars? SCAM!!!! If you are overweight and can't lose weight IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT !!! You've simply been scammed by diet programs that are statistically proven to never work for 95% of the population. So logically you should just give up and don't try to lose weight and get healthy, right?? - don't even try!!!
Oh, and by the way, if you happen to find a program that DOES work for you and you actually lost weight and kept it off DO NOT SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH ANYONE. YOUR FRIENDS WILL HATE YOU FOR IT!!! Because let's face it, you lost some weight but they probably still won't. So keep it to yourself!
If my friend was making money with STE and didn’t tell me about it, then he is not a friend.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! It is not because most people fail, it is because most people MUST fail or the system will break down.
If JoeO understood this, he wouldn’t make this invalid analogy. Weight Watchers, Slim Fast, etc. does not require a huge failure rate, MLM does. The more that people succeed with the weight loss program, the better it will do. If any one of them had 100% success, it would be the best thing for it. Conversely, an MLM’s “success” is built on failure! If the MLM had 100% success (signed up everyone possible), then it would completely collapse! Again, the people at the TOP are getting paid more money that is being generated by product sales. That deficit MUST come from somewhere and that somewhere is the huge volume of people at the bottom that sign up and eventually quit having lost money to the MLM. The more people that sign up, the more people will fail and the more money is lost to the MLM. And the more money the bottom people loose, the more money the top people make. JoeO. needs to learn how to do math, then he would realize that you can’t make, for example, 20% on a product sale and then pay 30% or more of the of the product sale in commissions. That is all there is to it. The rest of the MLM argument (any MLM argument) is all smoke and mirrors. You can't buy a product for $80, sell it for $100 and then pay your people $30 in ANY business. That $10 deficit has to come out of somebody's pocket. It isn't the buyer and it isn't the people at the top of the MLM scam, it is the suckers at the bottom!
i keep hearing the word "lose" so loosely used. Can anyone tell me how you think you can "lose" money in this business? There is no inventory!!! No overhead!!! You obviously dont think you are going to start a business and just sit back and do nothing and make money do you?
This is no different than starting your own independent business...if you were an independent small business owner...you probably are not going to get customers flock into your doors just by pulling your open sign on. In the beginning its about get friends and families and hopefully the locals to refer people to your business and then your clientele will continue to grow.
We do the same thing...we build our network first and then after awhile...recruiting means nothing! You can either make a little or a lot...no way of losing! Only way is if you literally sit back and do nothing!!!
I'm done even bothering trying to conivnce anyone here that its a solid system...not all MLM's are the same...and this one is much different than most I've done my research on. Get the facts before you negatively try to perceive us as "crooks"...most of your negative comments must have come from your experience with other MLM's...we're all sorry you didnt succeed in your venture but as you can tell...everyone i know is making money with this...some making more than others but simply because they are putting more effort in than others. Plus...we all support eachother...so we dont just have someone sign up and then throw them to the curb! We all help eachother in this business...and everyone loves the support. Keep spending your precious time trying to ruin the livlihoods of many of us...we dont know what more we have to do to prove to you that WE ARE MAKING MONEY!!! We have already gotten our investment back and now can either go to sleep or continue to grow the business...there is no longer a chance for "losing" UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
i keep hearing the word "lose" so loosely used. Can anyone tell me how you think you can "lose" money in this business? There is no inventory!!! No overhead!!! You obviously dont think you are going to start a business and just sit back and do nothing and make money do you?
This is no different than starting your own independent business...if you were an independent small business owner...you probably are not going to get customers flock into your doors just by pulling your open sign on. In the beginning its about get friends and families and hopefully the locals to refer people to your business and then your clientele will continue to grow.
We do the same thing...we build our network first and then after awhile...recruiting means nothing! You can either make a little or a lot...no way of losing! Only way is if you literally sit back and do nothing!!!
Like JoeO. you miss the point. The problem with MLM is not that it is impossible to make money. Additionally, the problem is not that people (who understand it) expect to get money for nothing.
The problem, quite simply is that BY DESIGN, there must be a high number of people in the "downline" sign up and quit - thereby losing money to the MLM. You can ABSOLUTELY make money in an MLM and it takes hard work to do it. But if you ARE making money in an MLM, you are doing so at the mis-fortune of others.
WHY??? I'm glad you asked -even though I've already told you. Because the "upline" gets paid MORE money than is earned in product sales.
The cold hard numbers show a 99% failure rate for MLM's. The problem is JoeO. and friends only want to talk about the 1% who actually make money. Partly because the 99% of people who lose money, fade into obscurity -blaming themselves. They say they didn't try hard enough.
But again - MLM's by DESIGN require this high failure rate. Unlike your comparisson to legitimate business models which also have startup costs and require hard work to succeed.
To say that "anyone can do it" in reference to an MLM is the same as saying "anyone can do it" in reference to a slot machine! This is only sort of true. Of course a casino has higher morals because people understand that 99% of the people playing the slots will "lose" money by DESIGN. So while in a way anyone CAN hit the jackpot, only FEW will win at the expense of all those who lost.
(Oh and a Casino entices people to their own harm. They don't sick people on all their friends and relatives trying to extract money from them to with deceptive promises.)
So if Casino's are allowed to operate, then logic follows that MLM's should be able to operate too. But it isn't fair that Casino's have to disclose the odds and MLM's don't.
But don't take my word for it, just do the math. You CANNOT pay more to the UPLINE than you make in product sales, unless the money comes from somewhere. Do the math - you will see exactly where it comes from - BY DESIGN.
You might find this page quite helpful: http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MythofIncomeReport.html
Food for thought: Ever notice that the people in your life pushing MLM's are the same one's who send you all those e-mail forwards that turn out to be hoaxes? (You know the ones I mean "Microsoft will send you money for forwarding this e-mail" and "Penny Brown is missing", etc.)
They are not "bad" people. They are usually your aunt or some friend, but no matter how many times you send them the link to Snopes.com, they continue to forward hoax e-mails.
Sorry, but I couldn't help but make that observation public.
Ever notice that people that don't read emails or think that everything is a scam are the ones who have never really amounted to anything? The same ones who rarely venture outside of their narrow-mindedness!
There are those who MAKE things happen and those who WAIT for something to happen. Sadly, the majority of people do nothing and wonder "What happened?".
All I can say is that yes...in the beginning most of the income comes from recruiting and building your network. In the long run, once you have a strong enough network you will not have to focus on recruiting ever again. How is this different than any business model? If you become an independant business owner you technically have 0 customers when you pull your open sign. You can do one of two things...you can sit back and wait for customers to come in the door (which usually fails) or you can go out and spread the word through word of mouth and gain referrals to come to your business. The bigger your customer base becomes the more you get to focus on your business and retaining your existing customers vs. getting new customer.
This business model has been around for centuries. You all have said the word "lose" money in mlm's so lightly. And im seriously sick of reading that 99% of people in mlm's lose money. People, I respect whatever you do for a living and the last thing I would ever do is try and come down on whatever you do to put food on the table for your family...but please STOP trying to ruin the livihoods of individuals involved with STE. Your 99% has to be false towards STE...EVERYONE i know invoved with STE has at least gotten back their return on their investment...now dont get me wrong...out of the 65,000+ people I'm sure there are many people who has failed and probably because they didnt put the right amount of time and effort in it but does that mean that all GOOD business models dont fail? Have you ever seen a burger king, mcdonalds, best buy, etc. ever close down??? Of course you have...because lot's of things come in to play when a business fails...and it's mostly the people running the business that bring it down.
Another thing...I work in the franchise industry and for you to bash on a company for not publically announcing their comp structure is ludicrous. If anyone came to me and asked me any specifics about my franchise i would require them to sign a confidentiality agreement before any critical information is given. So please dont base your negativity on the simple fact that shop to earn doesnt pass on all the information. They do however give you 14 days to cancel which should give you plenty of time to go through all the fine print and decide if its something for you or not.
In an economy as it is...how can you live with yourself on bashing a business that most of the positive posts are clearly telling you we are making money. Every single negative post is from people who have never been a member...even the lady above who is a member with negative comments expressed that this could be a money maker for her but she is having a hard time getting referrals. This is not for everyone...this is not something that you just pay for and go to sleep expecting to make money.
I just hate to hear people bring down concepts without living through it. I hear a lot of people say all MLM's are the same...and although i believe some of comp structure is similar...shop to earn is not like others...we dont have any inventory, overhead, employees, etc. Other companies such as mary kay make you buy inventory and then sell it...completely opposite here.
We are not recreating the wheel...we are just polishing it. We are asking people to change their buying habits and refer others to change there buying habits and in the long run...there will be a reward for getting people in your network to change there habits. I understand that there are some free sites out there but they do not reward your efforst for reffering others.
And when did referring people and getting paid for it ever become a bad thing? Anyone know that national city bank is paying people $50 to any existing client to refer a new person to open up a checking or savings? Did anyone know that Sprint, Verizon, and Alltel all pay their existing customers $25 for every new customer they refer to the business...is that fraudulent???
People, I'm sure you have found many flaws in many systems but I don't think you can genuinely find a flaw in our system EXCEPT for the balanced structure that we have to maintain. I have been able to support my network by assisting them in making sure they have a balanced structure and that 1/3 of their points are coming from their weak side. With the support from me and many others we have all been able to maintain that structure and get paid our bonuses.
I also understand that this site makes a living on finding flaws in the system...i respect whatever your business is and would never try to bash you because I am a family man and all i care about is my family and i will do whatever it takes to take care of my family...we are all happy with the payout Shop To Earn has brought to us and also love that it hasnt changed our lifestyle like we have heard other MLM's have done(ACN, Amway, etc.).
We enjoy browsing through the sites and never thought that we would change our habits to buy online the things we always buy every month already...drugstore.com has been probably the one we use the most. It's literally like a cvs or walgreens right in front of you.
I attended one of the STE seminars last night and gotta tell you that I liked the concept and it seems genuine and legit. I've never been a business owner in my life but it will make perfectly sense that in order for your business to make money you need to bring in costumers and if your product is good those costumers will bring more costumers. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to understand this business concept. I attended to another MLM seminar many months ago but they're asking for almost $3K to sign up, you'll have up to 5 websites for you to sell any product and they'll teach you how potential buyers will find you thru Google, I liked the concept too but the sign up fee was way too much. Let me share some personal experience with you; 2 years ago I invested $5K in a pre-construction house in the gulf coast of FL during the real estate boom thinking that I'd have gotten at least $60K in return according to the builder and the realtor but many of you know that those good old days went by so fast and sadly I lost that money and the builder vanished and the house never got built and other friends lost money too on that but I'm not giving up and I dont want easy money I want to work at it and see big returns. I guess $450 is about 10% of what I invested before and thats not a whole lot. This business concept is used in large and global corporations why this one would be different. Just think about those credit card companies with reward points, for you each dollar they give one point and each point is worth about 10cents when you do the math, plus you're paying high interests on each dollar you spend so I ask you this who is making the money here?...thats what I thought. So if an opportunity like this knocks on your door dont reject it until you try first. Just like one of you said that if you dont take risk you will never find out, life is about taking risks and not thinking "what if"... be a lion chaser, be a doer, dont think about it just do it, make the change and if you fall just get up and keep trying, be a head and not a tail, dont try to be a leader without being a good follower, and for those of you that says that this is a lost battle is because you havent fought yet, dont mingle with negative people you wont learn a good thing from them. Personally I'm gonna sign up and work very hard at it, I'm gonna do whatever it takes and if I crash thats my fault but I wont give up. I've worked for the money for so many years and I think is time to let the money work for me.
Just think about this, who would’ve thought that we had an African-American president elected? He fought against all odds and probably in his mind never thought that he could be the first black president of the greatest nation, he took the risk and took the opportunity and got it and that’s what we should do.
Babe Ruth one of the best baseball players in our history. Did you know that he had more strikeouts than homeruns? But yet he’s remembered for all homeruns he got, no one says anything about his strikeouts.
So for those STE members keep working hard and don’t miss a chance to let your friends know about this great business.
Peace out!!
Rico
Rico,
The person that is signing you up in STE is very fortunate! You have THE attitude that creates winners. There is no doubt you will succeed and be very successful in STE. So many people fail before they try because of poor attitude. To mutual success!
Again, I say - Do the math! MLM promoters always include so much smoke and mirrors, but never do the math. Every person who ever pitched an MLM to me spends a half-hour beating around the bush before getting to the point. After a lot of meaningless talk, they finally let on that it is an MLM scam they are pushing. Of course, they don't use the word scam, but they hide the fact that it is MLM as long as possible. Every one of them!
And in the posts above there is a lot of discussion and analogies and word pictures and testamonials, etc. But nobody wants to do the math!
You simply cannot pay more money to the "upline" than is generated in product sales unless you are counting on other sources of revenue. But that is exactly what EVERY MLM has in common.
Do the math, you will see that the only way to pay the upline as much money as an MLM does is because of the 99% failure rate -this includes STE - do the math! The other source of revenue is the sign up fees of the people who lose. Yes lose.
Do the math! If the "upline" was paid only on product sales, they would not be driving "this car" and living in "this house" making all "this money". Because there simply isn't that much money in it! If there were, every clerk at Best Buy would be making six figures!
Do the math! Compare and contrast the profit earned on product sales to the money paid to the upline. You will see the upline is getting paid way more than the profit made on the product sales. Where is that money coming from? It comes from the tens of thousands of people who sign up and quit having lost money in STE. (If the above number is correct of 65,000 -then about 64,000 of them quit STE with less money than they started with. Money that was paid to the other 1000 people.)
Do the math! Yes you can make money with an MLM like STE if you work hard at it. But only if you work harder than the other 99% of the people in it with you.
Do the math people! It isn't that hard to figure this out. All the rest is a bunch of subjective jargon and wishful thinking. The objective numbers are clear!
It would be folly to buy a company at any price without looking at the balance sheet. How many of you STE people have seen the company balance sheet (and know how to read it)? Why not post a detailed P&L for us to see exactly where the money is coming from? It sure isn't comming from the product.
Hi, I found this on another blog about STE and the BBB.
Carl Humphries out of Odessa is involved which means it is a 100% Pure Scam
another "opp" destined to crash and burn shortly
This scheme is register in the state of Nevada, incorporated in Florida with an address in North Carolina. The principal individual behind these scheme is Dan Swiniarski. The BBB report on them state that and quote: As of 11/4/08 the Bureau has beeb unable to confirm this company has a valid local business license for the locale in which they operate. IF A CONSUMER DOES BUSINESS WITH AN UNLICENSED FIRM, THEY DO SO AT THEIR OWN RISK.
Can anyone comment on the advantages/disadvantages of signing up for a website only to earn money for our charitable organization? We are a sports booset club trying to raise funds for projects.
I was in Shop to Earn for about 10 days before I recovered my wits and decided to get my money back. They credited my charge card as promised, but here's what I still don't have from them and why I was leery of this "opportunity" in the first place. You have to order $100 worth of their "earth" products every month. I went ahead and placed my order a couple of days after I joined. It's now been 21 days and I have yet to receive my order. Once you leave the company, you have no way to contact them except thru the person who signed you up (if they're still doing the business). This company gives you NO CONTACT information. There is no telephone number listed anywhere for them which made me suspicious right from the start and you cannot even email them directly. Now any other legitimate company you purchase from gives you a way to contact them and obtain information on your order. I will never, ever order from this company again if in fact I ever receive my products. They could be the best products in the world, but I am done with them. Incredibly poor customer service, to say the least. I am disgusted with the whole concept.
you didnt "have" to buy anything until the 3rd month sucker
People:
Here's why STE works so well, is very profitable, is in compliance and will last for decades: STE has a wonderful product, it's a Web-portal that gives you cash-back at over 600 stores. The product works great and there are no complaints. I hear of other web-portals that are cheaper or even free - but that's ok. Why do some people choose a Jaguar over a Toyota or even taking the bus for that matter? All 3 will get you to work on time.
This product, if you want to buy one, costs $448. And over 75,000 have been sold so far. Do THAT math (over $33million). STE has spent a few Million getting this system up and running and now it's all profit.
If you can't understand that this is 2008 and a cash-back web-portal IS A VALUABLE PRODUCT, then you just don't get it. Move on.
In addition, their Shop to Earth business will soon be the largest eco-friendly store on the web. It will exceed $1 billion in sales in the next 5 years and with just a typical 50-60% profit margin, STE will be extremely profitable and able to pay the people who built it for them forever.
So people are simply buying web-portals and they can shop and get cash back, if they choose they can refer others and make it a business. Either way, people are getting what they paid for.
This is NOT difficult to understand.
Joe O.
I have come here to research about STE and appreciate all of you on providing me with the feed I search for. My wife got involved into this thing and I wanted nothing to do with it. BTW it could cost her a divorse.
But then after analyzing this MLM, I have come to a conclusion this is nothing but an affiliate program like those provided (free) by CJ and others that you get pay a commision for purchases made via a link you provided on your website!!(I have been involved in several affiliated programs for years)
...but it also give you the opportunity to grow it as a business recruiting..so I will it a try even as I am not convinced a 100%..............I have been a DOUBTING THOMAS all my life!
Gerry M
Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for this site being able to place my comments vs. Ms. Tracy Coenen's site that did not allow my comments because she is just allowing comments that will not expose the truth about her ulterior motive's behind her website. She is just simply out to promote her book through suckers out there that do not know better and cannot see through her intentionality. I am a Shop To Earn Broker for 3 months and I have earned almost $12,000.00 part time so far and absolutely love it. There is still hope in this world and there are still companies with good ol' fashioned values in treating their people right. I am here to stay and encourage anyone to get to a presentation to learn more..it will be worth the trip...
STE is a great business opportunity, pyramid sceams are illegal. Do you think all of the fortune 500 and 100 companies would jeoperdize themselves by getting involved with a pyramid scream? Network marketing has been proven to be a great money earning career over and over. People said the same thing about Amway and Primerica...If those companies are sceams why are they still in business?
Amway is a billion dollar co, and Primerica is a partner of Citigroup...
The problem with people who get involved and fail is they quit, they have too high expectations and do not go to training,they do not treat it like a business. People this is a business, just like any other business you have to work hard to succeed. Quiters don't win and winners don't quit.
If you bought a Mc Donalds franchise it cost a million dollars. So for a million dollars you get a name and a system that works and maybe 50k a year if you're lucky. STE is 448 and you get over 600 respected names and a system that works! If you don't follow the system it's not going to work.
Having to purchase 100 dollars a month from the green side is the company making an effort to promote 'GREEN' products (it's an eco friendly company)...lets face it people we are ruining our earth and one by we can make a difference.
When you purchase something from STE, as a website owner,the only difference is,instead of someone else getting cash back on your purchase, you get it. Do you get it? You don't have to be a business builder to take advantage of STE. If Network marketing is not for you just be a website owner, it's only 349 and 69 a year for web hosting and you own it til the day you die.
LIKE NIKE,WHO BY THE WAY IS ON STE, JUST DO IT! TO SAVE MONEY OR MAKE MONEY...WE ALL SHOP! IF YOU DON'T BUY ONLINE JUST CHANGE THE WAY YOU SHOP.SOME COMPANIES OFFER STORE PICK UP...LIKE BESTBUY
Charles Anthony
Charles, any mildly retarded schmo can put up a website with affiliate links from these companies. It's called affiliate marketing and any blogger can use it. So, please spare our readers the notion that these companies are somehow involved, or even aware of Shop To Earn. It's a blip on the Radar screen for them. The only thing anyone's buying on that "Earth" side are Cliffs bars since most of the other stuff you're forced to buy is useless...and overpriced, check elsewhere on the web, you know this. Yum!
STE is a classic Pyramid scheme. I am a strong advocate of Network Marketing as a business model but pop-up companies like STE, who are not even a member of the DSA, make it difficult for members of legitimate mlm organizations like Amway, Mary Kay, Avon & Primerica. I would like to add that all previously mentioned companies ARE respected members of the DSA and STE is NOT! There is a reason they are not a member. I am not on the board of the DSA but I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the majority of money is made by "Recruiting" rather than from the sale of either a product or service. Please don't compare STE with great organizations like Primerica or Amway. Your website offers nothing of value to consumers and will be indicted eventually, just as YTB Website(very similar concept to STE) and Pre-Paid Legal are currently being indicted. Why? Because the product they have is virtually without value and the majority of income is from recruiting not from selling product.
If you are going to get involved with a MLM business then follow your own advise. Do your "Due Diligence" and research the organization. One of the first places to start is the DSA. It is not a guarantee (nothing is) but at least a governing body has seen the organization's business model and dissected the integrity of it. You may make money but when the company disappears and you need to go to your friends and family with another scheme, will you still be credible in thier eyes?
My husband and I are current STE members trying to get a refund. Something to consider; In order to be eligilbe for your "commission" you must spend $100 on their Shop to Earth site. This would not be a problem if the product line they promise in the recruiting video was available. They promise all of your daily toiletries (deodorent and toothpaste specifically mentioned). The only daily items available are paper and cleaning. When you inquire about it, you are told it is coming and then a nasty email about too many support tickets comes out. We have been waiting for this, supposedly coming, line since October '08.
If you have disposable money, and lots of friends in the same boat, you can make money. However for the everyday person trying to make it in a failing ecomony, look deep before you give them $448. I could really use that money today.
Stephanie,
It's evident why you have not had any success with STE...you have not even logged on and looked through the site you purchased. There are MANY toothpastes and deodorants! Try looking in Jason's Natural to start. If you invest as much time in familiarizing yourself with your business as you do on criticizing it, you might even find success. I have 500,000 reasons (in my bank) to thank STE, even with a BLOG like this. Best of luck!
I'm sorry to hear that so many have been ripped off by Shop To Earn.
The law might be catching up, though.
Shop To Earn has now earned itself a big fat "F" rating with the Better Business Bureau (BBB).
Hopefully others who are fed the pitch to join will simply check with the BBB before forking over $450+.
Who wants to be coercing their friends into something that shady and try to explain away the field of red flags that surrounds Shop To Earn?
I guess if I had 500,000 in the bank I could afford $8 for a tube of toothpaste. I was told, by STE and my upline, that regular STE, not STE select, would have those items reasonably priced. When I questioned it, I was told they were coming. As I stated, there are many people making a lot of money on this site, there is no doubt; however those that I know have been in it for a long time and were able to build their business before the $100 min went into place. Now they are making enough that it doesn't matter what the cost of the products are. I am simply saying that the everyday person should make sure they read and understand everything before handing over $448 they can't afford to lose. There are reasons there are blogs like this, because the business is questionable and certainly not as easy as they make it out to be.
Stephanie,
Your original comment was that they promise something in the video and do not deliver. That is incorrect. They most definitely do have the things they say they do. If your objection is to the price, pick a different product. There are over 4,000 of them. I began purchasing on the Earth side before I had to because I believe in making a better choice for my health and our environment. STE certainly gives everyone the opportunity to make money before purchasing on the Earth side since you are not required to spend anything until your third month in business and remember that if you're not making any commissions, you do not have to spend. PLEASE work with people in your upline! Perhaps you need to go above the person that brought you in. Attend the meeting tomorrow night and get help from leaders in the company. This is a business of networking, of helping one another. STE does not try to say it's easy...it does require work on your part, but there are so many resources and people that are willing to help you build your business. Invest some time in yourself, especially in an economy like this. STE is not a "questionable business" you get paid to shop at your favorite stores for things you are already buying and you also get paid to refer people to your business. STE is a vehicle to change your life, now it's up to you ~ whatever you choose to do with it.
I agree with Stephanie. If toothpaste is $8, there's no Shop-To-Earn-double-speak that's going to change everything that's obvious and ridiculous about that.
As for STE being questionable, it certainly is not questionalbe-- It is blatantly a pyramid scam. Check out the Better Business Bureau. Shop To Earn has earned an F rating with the BBB!! Nothing questionable about that.
Stephanie, good for you for thinking for yourself and applying logic. It'll save you money and embarrassment. Plus, in tough times - or any time, actually - who wants to be the person trying to sell and coerce friends, family, and acquaintances to shell out hard-earned money on something so sleazy?
This is a time when the whole country needs to get real if we have any chance at a happy, peaceful, and prosperous future. Shop To Earn is a cheap artifact of how we got in this greedy mess. Now we know better, so we can do better, if we choose.
Sorry, but there is so much mis-information on this thread that it's hard to know where to begin.. Honestly, if you are reading this blog looking for the truth, you won't find it. Go to the website, read the rules and your questions will be answered. You can ask me, and I will answer them but will you trust my response? Should you? I can lie as easily as the people posting negative comments on Shop to Earn.
Is team building a bad idea? Depends on who you ask.. I like being in a business with people who have the same goal in mind. I *DO NOT* have to shop on the shop to earn site if I don't want to.. $8 toothpaste? Why would I buy that.. You are not forced to spend 1 single penny more than what you want. Period. If you have real questions, I can answer them honestly to the best of my ability.
Juggy, I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. In order to qualify for your "commission" you must spend $100 per month on Shop to Earth. If you read my thread, I have said that there are people making money; however I strongly suggest that anyone (especially the everyday person without disposable income) should do a lot of research before joining. It seems strange to me that you all are so against that idea. There is nothing wrong with that advice. I am not like some people that are giving their opinions. I belong to STE and am sharing my personal experiences, so you have no right to say that I am lying when you have no idea what I did or did not experience. Why would I write negative comments about something that I belong to if they weren't true? It would be counterproductive to my business, don't you think?
The last person that commented on my thread was correct; STE does have a F rating with the BBB. I originally thought that it had something to do with it being an MLM (the BBB sometimes puts blanket ratings on certain industries); however Quixtar (formerly Amway) has an A+ rating, so I am not alone in my experiences with STE. I just wish I would have seen that before joining.
Since Network Marketing became a business model in the 1950's there have been over 15,000 companies. Only 30 of those companies are in their 30th year. 98% of the companies are completely gone and 95% don't last even 5 years. Look at the statistics and do your due diligence. Before starting any business venture investigate the organization you are affiliating your good name with. Would you invest $100k in a franchise without investigating?
Network Marketing is a viable business venture and you can earn a little money or a lot of money depending on what you are willing ot do and the company you select to join. The 1st question you must ask is if the company is a member of the DSA, which is the national trade association that oversees the ethics and integrity of these organizations? STE is not!
The next questions you should ask are simple: Is the company between 5-10 years old? Are they in a growth stage? Has anyone earned a cash million in one year off the compensation plan yet? Are there caps on the comp plan? Who is the market? Are the products consumable? Is the comp plan binary (those plans collapse more quickly than the others)?
However, if the answer to the 1st question is a "NO" (member of the DSA?) then run and don't even ask the others. There are definite reasons organization don't want to present thier business plans to the DSA for dissection.
I love network marketing, but I am not going to ask my friends and family to get involved in just any "fly by night" operation. My integrity is important to me and yours should be to you. Do your "due diligence" and investigate the company, don't just listen to your friend and join because they did.
I never mentioned you gave false info Stephanie, I just mentioned most of the blogposts in this thread are misleading or inaccurate statements. While it is true that you must spend $100 (which btw is really $85 after cashback and you get 15pts), you only need to spend that $85 *IF* you want your points for THAT particular month not to flush to zero. This is your personal business decision and if I did not actually make any money that month, I would simply choose to let the points pass. Where is the difficulty in this decision?
I went to the BBB to see this F rating but could find no rating at all on STE.. Can you please provide a link as proof to this? I search by business name, by website, and by address and found nothing. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that this is true, but I would like to see it with my own eyes on the BBB website.
The business is new, I am not saying it is perfect, and perhaps everyone needs to read fully into what type of business it is before you join, but it IS a viable business model with good ideas, imho, and I think most of this thread is filled with half truths and misleading theories on how things work. This is an MLM, if you are not interested in this type of team building business, by all means, move on.
Here is the link for the BBB, http://www.vegasbbb.org/bbb_rated_acc_rpt.asp?bbbid=77457&tr=rated&lg=F&ex=15%2C19%2C26. I'm not sure if it will work from here. If not, I just went to www.bbb.org, then chose the US site. I put Shop to Earn in the "search for a business or charity" field and it brought it right up.
I understand that I don't have to buy anything; however if I ever want to get paid, I do. I knew that going in and had no issue with it; however the product line was presented to me to be affordable. Admittedly, I did not do my research before joining. I got caught up in my upline's sales pitch and by all of the checks I was shown by him and on the recruiting call. It wasn't until I was in that I found out that those checks add from month to month and what I was looking at was the YTD amount, not the monthly income. I am happy for you that you are doing well with it. I feel that they are intentionally vague on some areas in order to get people to join and 15 days is not long enough to truely judge how you will do in a business.
Well, I've listened to the pitches and read all the blogs...
What it really comes down to is what is my minimum risk. $450 is not that much (well I make a good living already), and if I do nothing more than direct my normal online shopping through STE I will make my money back (assume a 10% cash back on $4,500 annual online purchases). This is conservative for me, I actually spend more than that on the holidays already.
Will I get rich on this? Probably not. But a little work will likely reap a positive income stream off the program. A check for a couple hundred bucks a month is better than nothing.
So, I figure why not help a couple friends, sign up and get some cash-back discounts I wouldn't have before.
Thanks for the objective review and forum here Everyday Finance!
I understand you feel some products in the shop to earth section are more expensive, but if you go to the supermarket and shop organic foods, they tend to be slightly higher in price as well. "earth friendly" products have a tendency to have a slight markup. This hopefully would be mostly offset with the minimum of 15% cashback. If I was making $100 this month, and I wanted to buy protein shakes and bars, I'd buy the products I would normally have bought anyway in the shop to earth store and have my %15 cash back and $100 offset my purchase. If I felt the cost wasn't beneficial to me, I would simply pass.
If you find the shop to earth store has nothing you would want to buy, then I understand your dilema, however there are dozens of stores being added in the earth section each week. I am not doing "GREAT", I am making money here and there and building my team and marketing my website to my friends/family. I started a month ago. This is what the business is.. If I make enough money for a vacation each year for my family, that would be great. If it turns out to be bigger, then that's good too. I think you all just need to look into the business, the products, and evaluate if this is for you. What I dislike are the OTHER people posting false information and "THATS HOW THEY GET YOU!!" comments that are at best misleading, and at worse flat out lies.
Btw, I checked out the "F" rating from the BBB.. Reasons listed: 4 complaints in 36 months, 1 of which was resolved and the other 3 have not been confirmed to be resolved or not.. They list as follows:
Reasons for this rating include:
Length of time business has been operating.
Failure to respond to complaints filed against this business.
BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business.
So most of the rating seems to be coming from the relatively new business, and 3 unresolved complaints within 36 months. Does it deserve an F rating? I guess it does, the BBB has their own formula.. Nothing on there particularly scares me. I am actually very surprised of only 3 unresolved complaints. Let's face it, some people don't read the info and take the word of the person explaining it. I try to be as honest as possible when I explain the business. I'd be willing to answer questions people may have, but be patient as I don't check this blogspot often.
I like that Stephanie is trying STE and has real concerns about the $448 and getting her money and value. At least its from the heart - and even though there is some mis-information on her part ex. you are actually spending $100 of STE's commisssion money! you don't spend your own money. No commissions? no need to spend. So if someone scores 3 times and makes $1,800 in a month, in reality you only really made $1,715 in cash and you get the last $100 in the form of healthy and eco-friendly products - IS THAT SO BAD?
PLEASE KNOW THAT YOU NEVER have to spend $100 on the Earth side to get your cash back when you shop - not even to get your $100 referral fees! So, again, only if you are getting commissions are you required. Not so bad. That's why STE is growing so fast. It all makes sense when you take a closer look. Regarding the $448 - truth is, on-line shoppers are typically more financially secure and value their time more than others. For years they have been paying EXTRA for the convenience - just so happens today things are much cheaper on line and shipping costs, if any, are negligible.
But at least Stephanie is keeping it real . . . as opposed to 90% of the negative blogs on the web which is all non-sense written by people in other MLM’s that are scared to death as they watch their downline leave the “super juice” or “wrinkle cream” company they are currently working with - for this brilliant model that is STE.
Most MLM's pay 34-39% of the money they take in - that goes to profits and manufacturing of their proprietary products that you must buy. STE pays 75-80% o fteh money they take in! How? because they are true e-commerce and their product (cash-back web portal) is all paid for years ago. They are also making margins on the healthy product lines that they buy in bulk - from REAL companies that you will find at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and most healthy stores.
The STE product is a cash-back web portal that works great. STE does NOT promise to cure cancer, lower your blood pressure or heal your arthritis like most of the other MLMs’ products.
Think about it . . . why would anyone in their right mind waste time to “blog” and type on and on spreading lies or raising suspicions about STE without am ulterior motive? This is a $448 investment ($567 over 2 years) . . .its almost impossible to not break even.
I've made well over $25k the last 4 months in a row and have hlped 100's of others climb out of foreclosure and pay their bills. STE is an amazing story and its just getting started.
Joe
To prior anonymous poster, surely you must be kidding...the "non-sense" (nonsense?) is actually just a critique of a multi-level marketing scheme that I consdered joining and opted not to for several reasons. When these reasons were posted, the company counsel promptly threatened me with cease and desist emails even though he was unable to actually cite a single thing I posted that was either factually inaccurate or illegal. That's the company you're cheerleading for!
The whole portal thing is the nonsense. It took how many years to build a simple affiliate webpage?
You ever wonder why so many of these MLMs focus their strategy on either "healthy" or "earthy" products? It's the one sector that gullible consumers are willing to set aside objective rationale comparison and utility considerations and pay exhorbitant fees for goods and services they don't need.
For real, is there actually ANYTHING you buy through Shop to Earth that's both a) useful and b) competitively priced? Doubtful.
On this "hlped 100's of others climb out of foreclosure and pay their bills" - give me a break. You're signing up people that are in forclosure?? You profit from each sucker you sign up in your downline. Wow, such an uplifting story.
Why is the compensation system SO heavily tied to signing up new people? Think about it.
fyi - I'm not part of ANY MLM. I never have been and I can't envision that I ever will be. I don't have any ulterior motive. I just think STE's a joke and I've proven it. I just pop in here once in a while to check out the latest rah-rah story.
Have fun continuing to troll the internet for any other criticism.
STE rocks... and YOU know it!
The compensation system is SO heavily tied to signing up new people?? You get a measly $100 for signing a person.. This is a heavy compensation? The overhead of the company is very minor, the main goal of the company itself is to expand the membership base. An increased membership is the goal of all MLM businesses since numbers are the driving force behind MLM's. Everyone knows this, and if you didn't know and are shocked to learn it then I am sorry, welcome to the MLM business. If you are upset that you get a large chunk of the money for referring someone instead of the company, it's an odd gripe to have since most people would be upset that the company would keep more money. I am sorry if you feel getting your fair share for marketing your business is a bad thing.
I'm not saying I've helped anyone pay a mortgage like Joe, I'm just trying to build my team so we can all profit in what people do normally every day.. Shop online. As an incentive for my friends to shop through my web portal, I send coupon codes of 10-25% off so they can help themselves to some real savings while helping me with my business.
CAN anyone build an affiliate website on their own? Sure.. You can take weeks and months to fill out all the forms and wait to be accepted at EVERY online store and then build your website yourself if you know HTML language.. OR you can join STE, have it all done for you including the accounting and payment system, and have the added benefit of it being an MLM business where the rules of an exponentially increasing shopping affiliate team will benefit myself.
Skip all the manual work, the forms, the website creation, the accounting AND utilize an MLM affiliate program where not only do I take advantage of my friends and family, but I take advantage of my ENTIRE TEAM's friends and family network at absolutely no harm to them? This is a hard decision to make? I'm sorry.. I don't see it.
Shop to earth store? Yep, I shop for the health foods and protein shakes. Is it competitively priced? If honestly is what I am striving for, then honesty is what I must give.. Some of the products are higher priced by a few bucks here and there, BUT when you calculate 15% cash back and free shipping, it comes damn close to fairly priced deals on the web. It won't compete vs high volume low margin businesses that aim to make 5cents profit per item and pump out volume, but it is VERY competitively priced vs stores I visit every day.
I love it when everyone can type here that they have made so much money, but no one leaves their URL.
Out of 300 random individuals in Shop to Earn these past three months, Over 87% of them are no longer active, around 12% of them only buy on Shop to Earth ($100 mandatory buy) in order to get their monthly check and the last 1%are buying both sides of the website just to prove to their underline that the website has some credibility.
As far as the organizations/groups that have signed up with STE, which I have 155 organizations/groups that I researched, only one group has made over $300 in their fundraising efforts. About 90% of the groups have made less then $75. I would love it, if someone out there can give me one group that has been able to bring in a good amount of money through their fundraising efforts.
Bottom line, is that this shopping portal does not work, unless you are on top or in the middle of the pyramid and you had a successful start. Credit Card companies are going to use this concept and bank on it in the future.
If you are thinking of joining STE, I would stop and run the other way, because this company is on its way out. Of course that part is my opinion from the research I have done.
You know what I find funny? When some anonymous guy posts random numbers as facts and complains how other anonymous people don't validate their posted facts. "Hey, I just did research of 3000 STE businesses and 95% of them made over $300, and only 5% of them made $299". We're on the internet, so what I write must be true, right? Oh, you think because you're against STE that your unvalidated data must be valid and because other anonymous posters are pro-STE their data must be fake? Truth is you shouldn't believe ANYTHING you read on the internet that you personally have not verified yourself, because everyone has their own alterior motives.
If you think there aren't business owners of other MLM's on this thread posting false info about STE to give their own MLM a self perceived better chance, or someone trying to promote their MLM hating book, then think twice.
People do not post their links of their own businesses because of fear of vindictive people who might try to harm their website. I can give you my own personal info, because I care about a fair review of STE. I've joined STE in Feb 09, I have 23 members in my team, and have made $1,250 since March 31st. Minus my own costs, I've made about $950 thus far. I've spent about an hour a week talking to friends about STE. I expect a stream of about $200-$300 a month until my network expands. I will not give my link in public for the reasons I mentioned above, HOWEVER, my website does have my members and earnings visable for all to see. You can contact me if you want proof of my website. I can also prove it's mine by manipulating my website.
Learn about STE by asking a friend you trust, there are pros and cons and you need to be aware of what is expected before you get in. This *IS* a business that requires effort.
Juggy, find me one, all i ask is one organization/group that has raised over their initial investment? We will start there and then i shall continue with my proof.
And to be completely honest Juggy, I use to be a STE website owner. And i have been going to as many URL's as possible to gather this information. I am not going to just throw my name out there and have STE bully me around until i am completely ready to show the truth. On the other hand, people claiming that they have made so much money in this company; let's see the proof!!!
How easy is it to provide your information (URL) and show the world how successful you really are.
So go ahead and give me one group Juggy. Once i prove that point, I will continue to prove the rest. Or is there something you don't want to know? Or that you already know and you don't want others to find out!!!
To address Juggy's statements:
"The compensation system is SO heavily tied to signing up new people?? You get a measly $100 for signing a person.. This is a heavy compensation?"
Um, yes. Getting paid $100 to sign up another person is a lot of money. Having to pay $400 plus to get in is also a lot of money. The majority of all the money you make is simply from signing up more suckers, not from providing any actual goods or services, right? Classic MLM scheme.
"People do not post their links of their own businesses because of fear of vindictive people who might try to harm their website."
This is just plain silly. Who are these "vindictive people"? Who Cares? Do you think anyone cares about your supposed success story? So, there are these cyber-hackers from Russia looking to take down these wildly successful STE websites. You've gotta be kidding. Nobody really cares. Incidentally, if this guy spent 10 years building this wonderful website and infrastructure, don't you think there should be some security measures involved for members?
"CAN anyone build an affiliate website on their own? Sure.. You can take weeks and months to fill out all the forms and wait to be accepted at EVERY online store and then build your website yourself if you know HTML language.."
You're completely misinformed. I started a blog on blogger (this one) without ever having known or met a single person that blogged, nor did I have any programming experience. It's total cake. Within 10 minutes of signing up, you can be blogging. As far as Affiliate programs, you just go to commission junction and linkshare, apply once and you can just click a button on hundreds of companies (many of which are not included with STE by the way). It's not weeks or months or laborious forms, it's clicking a mouse on the box next to the companies you like. So, your statement is very inaccurate.
"Skip all the manual work, the forms, the website creation, the accounting AND utilize an MLM affiliate program where not only do I take advantage of my friends and family"
Well, at least you admit to taking advantage of your friends and family...
Folks, it's been fun, but the comment thread has moved to the 2009 STE Update Article and Comment Forum
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